The problem with that, Si, is what would the weapon to be replaced? The scout doesn't really need a buff, and that is a buff even with the falling damage - double jump will still work the same.

The Scout needs to be tied down in a prison cell for murder and theft (he murdered Heavy and stole his sandwhich).
The Scout seems fine tbh as... look at Gozzer, right annoying ******* as a Scout, and tough to take down. If the players is skilled, the Scout's weapons atm are fine for his job...
The Spy needs help as unless you are seriously pro (Blackvain is a standard of pro) you won't do well. Gozzer's post is perfect for the Spy... just hope Valve are impressed and use all those ideas.
The Heavy needs help- big, slow and an easy target for most classes unless he has a Medic with him... he needs someway to hold his own without a Medic keeping him alive...
More accurate and powerful gun but really low ammunition supply? If he had that then he could fit his role as a defensive class perfectly by standing near a dispenser and guarding an area... or he could be unstoppable as a quick offensive unit to kill most of the enemies and allow the rest of the team to push through and mop up the rest.

Valve screwed over the pyro... the only decent unlockable has been ruined...

I thought part of the updates were supposed to be about making the characters more able to survive, they've really screwed over that point. I'm contemplating boycotting TF2 over this.

I'm not. I still haven't played TF2 enough to see any bad points

I think there's confusion as to what Valve are trying to achieve with these updates. Personally I think they are updating the content to keep people having a lot of intrest in the game and to provide alternate gameplay. Whilst not trying to buff any single class.

The only thing is, they are failing slightly. The medic got a big buff, apart from the KritzKrieg there isn't any alternate play involved. The Pyro got buffed, but in all fairness did actually need it a little. Now they have removed the health bonus I feel the pyro has that little buff it needed and can provide alternate play. They are slowly getting there.

If they want to provide alternate play for the heavy, it will be like Hawke has mentioned a few times. A heavy that is actually effective without a medic constantly hugging him. A mini-sasha that doesn't have such a long range, fires at a slight quicker rate, a lot weaker, spin time is decreased by 50% and allows the heavy to have a 20% overall faster pace. This way the heavy is faster and weaker, so he can jump in and out of action instead of jumping in and staying in.

As a career pyro, I can say you're so very wrong there Si.

Removing the extra health no makes the BB and AB balanced. Most people would pretty much always take the BB because of the health. I would take the BB except when there were lots of soldiers, or soldiers/demos kept killing me. I will still do the same now, but the soldier threshold will be much lower, I may even use it if there are no soldiers - it has other uses. The pyro never really needed the extra health, and it didn't really suit the backburner anyway - an ambush weapon doesn't really need more health.

As for the other weapons being useless, I completely disagree on account of the flare gun - it is awesome if you use it properly. Not as good at finishing people off if they run away, but you shouldn't really give them an opportunity to run. Also, it gives you a chance to avoid snipers - I always used to fire shotgun in the direction of a sniper to stop them getting aim, but the flaregun is much better - one shot and they're either stuffed or have to move anyway. It does remove your only decent underwater weapon, but lets face it, how often do you go underwater?

The axetinguiser is a bit hit and miss, and really depends on your play style. I personally rarely use my axe, but I've heard of people who like to light people up then axe them, so this weapon suits them, and is a fair trade off with the other axe. Plus is looks cool.

Anyway, I personally thought that the pyro update made him insanely overpowered, but he's now been brought back inline with the damage falloff reintroduced (but less of it) and the health boost removed. I used to be able to top score boards as the old pyro, so these additions were welcome (especially the airblast and flare gun - really helped me).

Also, something I read on the Steam forums a while ago about unpopular updates (paraphrased);
Imagine that the original TF2 didn't have ubercharges (making the medic class a tad useless and stalemates common). Now imagine Valve introduce them in an update, thus giving the medic an extremely powerful tool (but one that works in balance with the rest of the gameplay). What would your response be?
(Bits in brackets are what you probably wouldn't notice, but we know now due to having played with it)

Bycotting the game over Valve reducing a massive boost given to a single class is a bit silly. If you don't like it, play a different class and leave the burning to the career pyros

Good post.

I would say the medic deserves the Ubercharge, because without it he really would be useless.

The medic would be far from useless if he ddin't have the ability to deploy ubercharges. In a competitive match of 8v8 a team with 2 medics will steam roll a team with 0 medics.

Medic can buff their patients giving a huge advantage, whilst saving others asses and keeping them from the dreaded respawn timer.

If you ever played as a Soldier, youll realise just how annoying that extra 50hp really was... It made the difference betwen a 2 rocket KO and a 3 rocket KO.... Which made the game well overbalanced... Added to that fact that with the flamethrower you die in around 2 seconds with crits....

I totally agree with Skillers on this one. The Pyro didnt need the health boost... I for one am glad to see it been removed. I'd rather play TF2 again now also because of thos... The Pyro whoring with the backburner was just starting to really wind me up.

Also... about all these heavy posts... Valve probably know what they are doing now... I just hope the Soldier is next because hes been dropped to being the least used character imo... Currently being abused by the Pyro because of the Air Blast...

Scout upgrade:

Aluminium Hockey Stick: Chance of knocking enemies over, 100% chance to knock over enemy when attacked from behind, 100% critical hits when hit with the hockey stick on the floor (or instagibs when kicked between the legs when on the floor)

How would the falling over part work? It's a neat idea though... but with the scouts speed, he can probably take an entire team on and win using his speed to trip them all them wack them all... which would make him a little overpowered...
I'm glad the Pyros have been put in their place again (sorry Skillers) - nobody is using the airblast at all and just spam the backburner to stay alive for a long time and burn everyone as a standard flamethrower would burn (they don't bother for ambushes, just charge in and burn) which takes away the point of the backburner- it is designed for an ambush.
Soldiers can avoid the rocket problem by aiming their rockets at the ground- it makes it difficult to reflect and if they do, it may explode on the ground near them, damaging them, not you. Also you can fire faster tahn they can reflect so the Soldier shouldn't really get owned by Pyros unless they let their guard down and allow them to get close and burn them (the Soldier is the natural enemy of the Pyro).
Mini-sasha is a good idea- faster and can run in an dout of combat, which would mean he needn't rely on a Medic to help him escape. Weaker won't really matter as it is used at point blank where it will cut most things to ribbons anyway, but it will take longer which may give the enemy a bit of extra time to kill the Heavy, so well balanced imo...
Si, they overpowered the Pyro. Everyone will admit it except the moronic Pyros who want to refuse so they can carry on racking up the kills and generally ruin the fun for others. Now that his health has been lowered, it offers the Pyro more variety in what they do- same as Medic, he can make someone invincible or extremely powerful, both require different mindsets... TF2 is still and always will be an awesome game, so please don't give up on it.

Heh, you don't need to apologise, I don't mind them removing the health, I have never really needed it. It was nice, but I can still do fine without it.

Of course you'll without it- Pyros dont need it, they just need a different mindset to charging in and flaming, which is what the backbuner was used for, but wasn't what it was meant for or designed for...

Charging in and flaming has always worked well for me, ever since I became a career pyro ^^

"Cut most things to ribbons"
Somebody been watching EvilDeadalus's 'How Play The {Insert class here}' videos?

I think having the mini-sasha weaker would be essential. The whole point is for it to allow the heavy to be more mobile, yet more vulnerable. The faster spin time allows the heavy to dive in and retreat from action a lot quicker, yet the weakness of the bullets means enemys can approach the heavy with a little less fear.

Hopefully this will make him an even easier target for the Scout

And the pyro xP

It's amazing how many heavies I've taken down without taking any damage from them, lol.

Pyros are fast and the Heavy is notoriously unaware of what is happening around them (yes Gozzer, I've watched EvilDeadalius' vids) so a Pyro can sneak round them and burn them before they can react, same as a Scout can jump on his head and bat him to death before he notices where the damage is coming from...
To be fair he will be less of a target to both because he will have speed to fire upon them before they can kill him and since both classes are at point blank to do damage, Heavy can cut both into ribbons even with a weaker gun a lot quicker...
In all honesty, Heavy atm is a target for any class that he doesn't notice in time to react as he usually has his eyes on his prey (the poor person he is cutting to ribbons) but Snipers, Spies and Pyros are the most effective methods of taking Heavy out of the picture... especially Sniper...

When I play as Spy (and it's rare that I do) I tend to target Heavy's, Medic's and Sniper's.

Because they are key and easy targets for a Spy:
Heavy is slow, therefore no trouble to a Spy unless the Heavy turns around and you stab him, then you're screwed...
Medic is faster than Spy but he usually has his eyes on his patient to keep pace with him and not lose connection with his medigun as well as keeping watching the area in front to avoid any rockets etc that miss his patient and come at him so approaching him is fairly rare trouble. Stabbing can be a problem as good Medics tend to sidestrafe all over the place to avoid incoming bullets etc that missed his patien so your stab could miss, then the rest of the enemy see you and take you down, but if he is standing still, he is like any other class- foolish and dead.
Snipers are an easy target mostly because they are scoped and oblivious to everything around them so they are unaware most of the time of a teammate coming at them from the side or behind. They move very slowly when scoped, especially when crouched so stabbing them isnt a problem, even if they suddenly unscope and sidestrafe a little- Spy moves as fast as Sniper.

It's definitely coming...


Watch this video on Youtube.

That's not a Valve model, lol. The base looks all wrong for TF2, too, and I'd imagine they would make the flamethrowers more like the Pyro's.

Flamethrower turret.... well they do say that the lv 2 sentry is basically a stationary Heavy... so there's no problem in having the equivalent of 2 stationary Pyros.... just don't place it out in the open as no doubt it will have a very short range....

Hopefully it could overpower the pyro.

I for one am really interested to see what the spy upgrades will end up being; I couldn't imagine a better alternative than the knife to be honest!